New Music
Interview
Heartworms: “The only way I could make sense of everything was through music”
With Heartworms’ debut now out in the world, we talk to Jojo Orme about her uncompromising macabre vision
“I’m always making demos in my room. I find it really hard to make anything outside of that space”, admits Jojo Orme, the ambitious architect behind Heartworms. Her creative process might always originate in her bedroom, but it’s outside those confines – and particularly on stage – where Heartworms truly flourishes.
Heartworms’ aesthetic is as eye-catching as her sound is punishing. Her monochrome music videos and stark, fire and brimstone lyricism paint from a varied palette of gothic imagery – the poetry of Edgar Allan Poe, lullabies and war cries, shadowy electronica, the grim realities of warfare, and her own difficult past all find a way into her distinct brand of gothic rock.
There’s few new artists as dark, despairing and devotional as Heartworms. There’s even fewer that possess such a strong sense of identity at this early stage in their career.
With Heartworms’ debut album, Glutton For Punishment, now out in the world and an accompanying tour impending, we talk to Jojo about her uncompromising macabre vision and how music helped her make sense of her traumatic teenage years:
You’ve said before that you had a chequered upbringing, particularly in your teenage years. What role has music had in regards to who you are now?
It’s been a part of me that’s helped me grow, and understand myself and the world around me. To make sense of it in my own way. I guess, the only way I could make sense of everything was through music – and also just to distract myself from everything else that was happening around that time in my life, too.
Have you always known what you wanted to sound and present yourself like as an artist?
No, it’s never solid. I’ve always evolved. There’ve been many phases of myself. I knew I wasn’t good at writing songs in the beginning, I just believed that I could. There was a lot of learning. When I got to the gothic sound and aesthetic, I was really starting to dig deep into what was going on inside me, and inside other people’s heads too. When you’re young, you’re a bit selfish. You don’t really think about what other people are feeling, even if you try to. You don’t have that kind of consciousness. But it was that consciousness that came to me when it all started becoming a lot darker. It’s part of me now.
Conflict seems to be a central theme in a lot of your music. Why are you drawn to hostility?
It’s every day. It’s more like conflict with myself and my mind trying to think one thing and another part of me thinking another thing. My inner monologue is in conflict constantly. Growing up, what I experienced was conflict every day in my family. There was never a break when there was any peace. I was looking around every corner, making sure I wasn’t going to upset anyone. I feel like I didn’t really get to experience what other kids experienced, I guess. There was conflict in relationships and friendships, because that’s all I knew. Only now that I have a partner I’ve learned that’s not the case. But conflict, I’m just drawn to it.
When did your fascination with military history start?
A few years ago, about four years ago. I’ve always been interested in history, but never had the time to focus on it. I always hear people say ‘oh I liked military history since I was in the womb’, and I’m like, ‘lucky you’. It’s cool when people find things themselves. I think that’s strong. Military history was always interesting to me. Learning all these dates when certain events happened, the poetry, the imagery, the uniform. It makes you feel a certain way and makes you look at people a certain way.
Also, reminding myself about war every day comes with a price. You have to understand it’s something that happens. Even if it’s not in your vicinity, it’s happening somewhere. I’m trying to make that known too.
Can you elaborate on what Glutton For Punishment means to you and why you decided to use it for the album title?
I heard the title somewhere on TV when I was with my friend. I thought, ‘cool, somehow that just fits exactly what I want for this album’. A glutton for punishment is someone who goes down a challenging road rather than an easy road, which is the story of my life and the story of my mum. People in my life have chosen the easy road, but I don’t know what the draw is. For me, it’s not knowing what’s next. Consequences drive me. I feel like there’s people out there that feel the same thing – we do things that we love that’s harmful to ourselves without realising until it gets bad. Glutton For Punishment just fit what I was singing about and how I was feeling.
What kind of role does poetry play in your creative process, and did any of the songs on the album start as poems?
So, actually, none of the songs from the album started as poems. I write poetry quite separately as Josephine Orm. I see Josephine as the poet, and Heartworms is what makes it bloom into something else. When I wrote the album, I’d write an instrumental, then think of a melody, then write random lyrics until they came afterwards. I look at old poems of mine, then find a title or saying which is cool. Most of the lyrics on the album are things that I’ve heard my mum say, or just memories I’ve had. I always repeat words over and over in my head, when I’m trying to make sense of something. I repeat words when I’m trying to make sense of something. I remember the EP though, ‘A Comforting Notion’ was actually a poem.
You’ve made violent and visceral lyricism your trademark to date. On Glutton For Punishment however, songs like ‘Just To Ask A Dance’ and the title track – which seem interconnected – show a more vulnerable quality in your songwriting. What’s the backstory behind these two songs?
‘Glutton For Punishment’ was written first. I sent it to Dan [Carey] and he was like ‘I don’t really understand’. I said ‘you will’. Then I wrote him another version, so when he listened to ‘Glutton For Punishment’ again he got it. I thought I’d keep both ‘Glutton For Punishment ’and ‘Just To Ask A Dance’, and let them both share the same chorus.
I love dancing. It’s always been part of my life and my expression. Being alone in my room when I was the only one at home, I’d be dancing.
The songs are about obsession. When I was at school, I didn’t really know what love was. Because of the trauma at home, I’d end up being obsessed with people at school. There’s a fine line between love and obsession when you’re young. ‘Just To Ask A Dance’ is about going through that, being delirious and making up stories in your head. Then at the end it goes “when you die, I’ll die, a mutual sigh” because it’s so dramatic and over the top. It’s about how much you love and how you’ll do anything. ‘Glutton For Punishment’ is a grown up version of ‘Just To Ask A Dance’ – a bit less strange and creepy.
You’ve also worked with [producer] Dan Carey again on Glutton For Punishment. What’s your creative relationship like with him?
He’s just like family to me. I haven’t had many adults in my life who inspire me like Dan has. He’s so open minded, intelligent. He comes up with some crazy stuff. I think that’s why we got on so well – we’re always on the same level. But sometimes, if I don’t want a certain sound, I’m not scared to be like ‘let’s do something different’. Which is amazing. He’s the first producer I’ve worked with, so I assume it’d be quite difficult to say those things. We both love drum machines. We both love creating drum machine houses in his studio, piling them on top of each other. We just love talking about things that matter. Working with Dan is always just so interesting. I’m always growing as a person when I have a conversation with him.
Gilbert Trejo has directed all of your music videos on this album so far. What is it you trust about him presenting your vision in a certain way?
It was the way he talked about things, his interests, and his knowledge. He’s seen every single movie. Because of that he knows everything about the emotion in certain camera angles, about the symbolism. Just some crazy stuff. Because I know what I want, I tell him and he goes ‘cool’ and creates it in the world of Heartworms, something I’d never have the ability to do. I feel so grateful to have Gilbert. Not many people have something like Gilbert to drive that image, and make people fall in love with it too. Similar to Dan, he’s just so intelligent. He has so much care, passion, and energy for Heartworms. He’s also quite funny – like when I do a good take he’ll go ‘that was shit’. I love his humour. He never even sleeps. That guy is running on coffee and candy.
You’re an intense performer on stage. Is it a persona that’s organically evolved?
Yeah. It all happened on stage. Remember when I first ever screamed loudly I was like ‘whoahh where did that come from?’ Over time you think ‘people reacted to that’, so you build up movements. I’d watch Prince – Purple Rain is one of my favourite things to watch because of the way each song was a character he portrayed with emotion and movement. He was quite militant too, in the way he moved. I get a lot of inspiration from that.
It’s my own take on wanting to tell my stories. Now I’m lucky enough to have a movement coach, Liv, who helps me refine these movements so perfectly. I get the band to join in. We do certain things at the same time, instead of the audience just watching people stand still and play guitar. It’s not just the music, it’s a performance. A theatrical performance.
You’ve cited artists like PJ Harvey, The Clash, and even The Shins as musical influences. Can you name any of your straight-up 10/10 albums?
Definitely To Bring You My Love, definitely that album by PJ Harvey. [Interpol’s] Turn On The Bright Lights. The Shins’ Heartworms and Wincing The Night Away. Also Ben Howard, Every Kingdom. That inspired me to be a great guitar player – I wish I was a great guitar player… Also the Grateful Dead, American Beauty. Youth Lagoon, the one with ‘17’, The Year Of Hibernation. Those albums made me so strong, and were my band aid for a number of years.
Glutton For Punishment is out now via Speedy Wunderground
Photos: Gilbert Trejo
